Agenda and minutes

Education, Children & Young People Scrutiny Panel - Monday, 16th December, 2013 7.00 pm

Venue: Ground Floor Meeting Room 5 - Civic Offices. View directions

Contact: Vicki Plytas on 9283 4058  Email: vicki.plytas@portsmouthcc.gov.uk

Items
No. Item

1.

Apologies for Absence

Minutes:

 

 Apologies for absence were submitted on behalf of Councillors Ken Ferrett, Terry Hall and Sandra Stockdale. Apologies were also received from education representatives Emily Fletcher, Richard Wharton and Rosemary Olivier.

 

2.

Declaration of Members' Interests

Minutes:

 

Cllr Stubbs declared a personal non prejudicial interest as he is a governor at Milton Cross School.

 

3.

Minutes of the meeting held on 2 July 2013 pdf icon PDF 22 KB

Attached

 

RECOMMENDED that the minutes of the Education, Children & Young People Scrutiny Panel meeting held on 2 July 2013 be confirmed and signed by the Chair as a correct record.

 

Minutes:

 

 RESOLVED that the minutes of the Education, Children & Young People's Scrutiny Panel held on 2 July 2013 be confirmed as a correct record.

 

4.

Consideration and approval of the draft scoping document for the review into governance arrangements. pdf icon PDF 22 KB

Officers will assist the panel to finalise the scoping document.

 

RECOMMENDED that the scoping document for the review be agreed.

 

Minutes:

 

(TAKE IN SCOPING DOCUMENT)

The Panel referred to the scoping document which was previously circulated and made the following comments:

·         Members asked whether they could attend a secondary school full governors meeting as part of their evidence gathering. They also felt it would be interesting to attend a governors' meeting for both a school that was rated as excellent and an underperforming school for comparison purposes. Nicola Waterman advised that she could provide details of the Ofsted site where comments made could be viewed. Tony Quinn advised that he would contact some schools and ask them on the Panel's behalf to see whether they would be receptive to this request. The dates of the meetings would then be circulated to members to see which meeting(s) they would be able to attend. The Panel felt it was important to attend governors meetings early in the review and it was agreed it would be best to complete this before the February half term towards the end of January or early February 2014.

 

·         With regard to the benefits of local authorities operating a clerking pool, the Panel asked whether a witness from a local authority who operated this could be invited to a future meeting. This would allow them to give evidence on whether this had been successful for them and to advise of any challenges they had overcome. Tony Quinn said that Hampshire Governor Services operated a clerking pool and he would approach them to see whether they would be willing to send a representative. Members added that they would be willing to visit Hampshire County Council if preferred.

·         Members said that they were not clear whether it was governors or head teachers who had ultimate responsibility for overseeing school governance. Tony Quinn explained that every head teacher is entitled to a place on a governing body, but governing bodies had overall responsibility for head teachers and there should be a mutual trust between the two.

 

RESOLVED

That the scoping document be approved.

 

 

 

 

5.

Review into Governance Arrangements pdf icon PDF 144 KB

Officers from the Education Service will attend to give evidence to the panel and answer questions.

Minutes:

Karen O' Connor, Education Officer, Tony Quinn, Senior Governor Support Officer, and Nicola Waterman, Strategy Advisor were present to give evidence and answer questions from members.

(TAKE IN REPORT)

The Education Officer explained that she had a range of primary schools in her portfolio. School governors are always invited to her termly visits to schools; however the uptake of this was minimal, which was a concern. Governors then had to wait for the report to come to the school before they could see how the school was performing. In addition to this some governing bodies did not include the reports on the agenda for their meetings, which was also of concern. In terms of school governing bodies she said there was a mix of good and bad examples in the city. Being a school governor was a huge commitment and getting time off work to attend meetings was sometimes an issue for school governors. There was also an issue with a lack of challenge, which was partially due to governors not understanding how to interpret the data before them and not knowing what questions to ask to challenge head teachers. A good head teacher would ensure that governors are trained in analysing data. The Education Officer explained that as part of her role she offers training for governing bodies, bespoke to their school, on how to analyse data and advises on what challenging questions they should be asking. The key to the training was that it needed to be evidence based. Education Improvement officers also supported the whole training of governor services. There was a varied take up of this despite the training being offered at various times during the day.

In response to a question regarding what could be done about poor governance, officers explained that there was an interim executive board in place to deal with poor governance. They felt that the best solution however was to empower governing bodies and to take a proactive rather than a reactive approach by undertaking self-review.

In response to a question regarding reconstitution of governing bodies, Tony Quinn explained that following the introduction of The School Governance (Constitution) (England) Regulations 2012 that came into force on 1 September 2012, governing bodies had the opportunity to reduce in size. Regulation 13 (2) states that the governing body of a maintained school must be no fewer than seven governors and at least two parent governors. The reduction in the number of parent governors required for a governing body meant that parent governors could be recruited on their skills base. Nationally few numbers of schools were reconstituting and many had remained the same size after reconstitutingi. There was no evidence to suggest that governing bodies were more efficient after reconstituting and it was felt that they would only be successful if the governors selected had the right skills.

The Education Officer said that the most successful governing bodies were those who were actively involved and were empowered to do so by their head  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.

6.

Discussion on next steps for the review

Minutes:

The Chair suggested proceeding with the review with fewer meetings but with more witnesses at each meeting. Members also said that they could be flexible with the times of the meetings. Members said it was useful to receive any written information in advance of meetings and that a short paper with bullet points was preferable. The next steps were agreed as:

·         Review Ofsted reports and identify schools in the city with good, poor and mediocre governance.

·         A brief list of training courses governor services offer is provided to the Panel by officers and also to advise whether these are accredited.

·         Invite governors and head teachers, not necessarily from the same school, to the same meeting, to provide evidence.

·         Invite a representative from governor services at Hampshire County Council to a future meeting.

·         Invite Steve Piper and Alistair Gray from the Educational Skills Group to a future meeting.